Build talk:N/any AotL Minion Master
1) Aura of the Lich has a 45 second recharge. You need another minion spell or two. 2) AotL gives +1 to death magic, so you decide to take a bunch of curses spells? I'm not seeing the logic. 76.25.21.240 15:18, 12 December 2008 (EST) :AotL is all the Minion you need. I tried AotL + Vamp horrors. I barely had Vamps because AotL fueled me like maed. --'› Srs Beans ' 15:20, 12 December 2008 (EST) Air of Superiority is pretty useful in this build - kill at the most 10 enemies and your bar is recharged. Mazza558 16:01, 12 December 2008 (EST) :Plus it recharges Curses nukes too. Synergies amirite. 16:15, 12 December 2008 (EST) ::Might want to add Glyph of Swiftness to optionals to help the recharge of AotL for the few people who don't have AoS. [[User:Justing6|'J']][[User:Justing6|'ustin']][[User_talk:Justing6|'6']] 19px 15:16, 13 December 2008 (EST) If you can get Glyph of Swiftness,you have Eye of the North, therefore, you can get AoS. But your idea is true, Arcane Echo Mabye? --[[User:Xilarth The Wise|'Xilarth The Wise']] 17:41, 13 December 2008 (EST) :I made this build 19 minutes earlier than thsi one and posted it and yet it wouldnt show up in testing section for hours :(, o well delete mine then [[User:Pwnagemuffin|'PWNAGEMUFFIN' ]] crabs 17:47, 13 December 2008 (EST) ::With the Glyph of swiftness note I meant the people who haven't gotten that far in EotN (me tbh). [[User:Justing6|'J']][[User:Justing6|'ustin']][[User_talk:Justing6|'6']] 19px 18:54, 14 December 2008 (EST) :::The "O Brave New World" quest chain can be done in about 45 minutes, provided you have access to Rata Sum and Gadd's Encampment.78.145.182.183 05:40, 19 December 2008 (EST) Curses Can we have suggestions for the Curses skills? --SBR88 22:22, 13 December 2008 (EST) Heroes Has anyone actually tested this with them? I think Build:N/any_Minion_Bomber would probably be more reliable, tbh. Imo, make this build for players only, something like: * to halve the casting time of Barbs, most importantly. * , might not have the Energy for it, though. * , obviously. GoLE is the lazy version of SoLS, and it'll be recharged by AoS, so it'll probably save more energy in the long run, anyway. It's mostly just filling out the current bar, tbh. [[User:St. Michael|'ــмıкε']][[User_talk:St. Michael|'нaшк']] 18:47, 14 December 2008 (EST) :Heroes would need another minion spell because the don't have access to AoS. Add to variants please or take off the hero tag. --68.32.187.152 19:46, 15 December 2008 (EST) ::Tbh, just keep this for PvE, and Build:N/any_Minion_Bomber for Heroes. The other one already has all the variants/optionals and includes Jagged Bones as an optional Elite, too. [[User:St. Michael|'ــмıкε']][[User_talk:St. Michael|'нaшк']] 20:01, 15 December 2008 (EST) Made a PvP version here: Build:N/any Aotl Minion Master PvP--19px‎[[User:Fire Tock|'Fire']][[User talk:Fire Tock|'Tock']] 19:03, 16 December 2008 (EST) :Same thing >.> just tag this for those-- ChristmasRelyk 15:46, 24 December 2008 (EST) Am I doing something wrong? I probably am, but just to clear things up, am I supposed to cast curses while I have minions up? or only spam BotM and only use curses to kill things without minions? Because the bone horrors seem to only have a 3-7 second life span in battle, or is that normal? (I've never played MM much before,) 64.229.223.221 14:22, 3 January 2009 (EST) :BotM provides a huge heal for all your minions. Use it sparingly, cause of pretty big sacc cost. Still, minions should last you a whole battle if you're healing enough and if your tanks are half decent. And curses should be used when you have a few minions, and probably lots of physical members on your team. It makes shit asplode, helping you to raise more minions. You either aren't healing enough, have too few minions, arent using curses enough, or have really crappy tanks. 14:29, 3 January 2009 (EST) Mainbar Issues This build has a few. Granted, all my opinion here, but here goes. :P One issue being that you list a large number of optionals, but have only one optional slot open. Furthermore, since you don't give alternative attribute information (how many points to pull from Soul Reaping to use any of the variants in non-DM/SR categories), it's assumed you'll be using those abilities with only the 3 attribute points remaining....which makes most of them totally not worthwhile. It'd be wise to rearrange the optionals section to something cleaner and more helpful, such as the way this build organizes its optionals. Secondly, why Foul Feast and why spam it? I assume for the energy and for general condition removal team support, because I don't see any benefit to spamming it for any other purpose. The health regained by spamming FF is minimal, and you will likely lose much of it if you transfer any degenerative conditions. So it doesn't nearly help to counteract the health sacrifice of this build. Does this build assume that your monks focus only on removing conditions from and healing you? It seems like you'd be better served pushing Foul Feast into optionals and grouping it with Infuse Condition. This opens up a second optional slot (which most people running this build probably were doing anyways) and puts synergetic skills together. --BuildKitten 17:39, March 14, 2010 (UTC) :You're very free to improve it yourself. --''Chaos?'' -- 18:20, March 14, 2010 (UTC) ::Can do, I just tend not to screw around with builds I didn't make until I'm sure I'm not the only crazy person who thinks it needs changing. :P Spruced up the build optionals section. Didn't remove FF as I'd rather wait for more opinions before changing the mainbar. --BuildKitten 22:58, March 14, 2010 (UTC) :::This whole build is flawed because its a human attempting to MM. Human MMs should only use OoU because they can't bomb worth shit. Life Guardian 23:00, March 14, 2010 (UTC) WELL tag How can this build be given a WELL tag for inferiority to another build when they are in different categories? Fynal 02:46, March 15, 2010 (UTC) :fix'd. Life Guardian 02:50, March 15, 2010 (UTC) ::I think the tag should be removed, and never should have been added to begin with. There is no logic to the deletion of this build, it's only on there because of Life Guardian's personal opinion on the subject. This build is not "inferior" to the one provided. It's just different. Frankly, I read the WELL clause over, and it doesn't apply here. This build is not a carbon copy of the OoU build, and it outperforms OoU in some cases. You're basically abusing this tag on the grounds that you, personally, don't find the build useful. Your opinion != legitimate reason to delete a build. --BuildKitten 04:32, March 15, 2010 (UTC) :::AoTL has a lower damage output, but can pump out considerably more minions, especially in areas with less corpses. Also lil' better at tanking and that. --''Chaos?'' -- 12:32, March 15, 2010 (UTC) :::I didn't put the well tag on the build, I just made it make sense. Even the previous build would make sense because, as I said before, humans make largely inferior minion bombers. Life Guardian 16:58, March 15, 2010 (UTC) ::::Why isn't this tagged for heroes anyway? I'm sure lots of people run AotL on their heroes. Spaggage [[User talk:Spaggage|''talk]] 17:08, March 15, 2010 (UTC) ::::"humans make largely inferior minion bombers" <---- Just because a human might not manage bombing as well as a hero does not mean that a build which allows for bombing is necessarily instantly bad for humans. Not to mention that, as far as I can tell, this is not even a bomber build. It's got BotM which is usually used for maintenance of minions, to keep them alive. Bombers don't try to keep their bombs alive. It's not inferior to the listed build, either, it's just different. It's far superior to OoU for energy management, speed of raising an army, and general corpse management. I'm not seeing any legitimate reason for the deletion of this build, beyond the general opinion that "humans can't maintain a bomber build"....when the build is not a bomber build to begin with. --BuildKitten 17:10, March 15, 2010 (UTC) I'm removing the tag, the underlying theory behind the three MM builds we have is sufficiently different enough to warrant separate build space. One is minion bombing where low level minions and death nova create your domages (which heroes are particularly good at). Another is a human build which maximises damage from minions and keeps them out the frontline so they wont get killed (OoU) and this one maximises minion level (to 21) allowing effective meat shielding and some damage. People often don't take MM in pve because, to be fair, it's pretty boring (and being boring isn't a valid case for WELLing). - [[User:Athrun Feya|''Athrun]][[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 18:49, March 15, 2010 (UTC) :AotL can go on a minion bomber =\ Life Guardian 18:58, March 15, 2010 (UTC) ::it could but that doesnt mean it should. jagged is so much better, if you want your damage to come from death nova then constantly making and breaking low level minions is far better than just a finite few which are harder to kill, bit of a no-brainer. - [[User:Athrun Feya|''Athrun]][[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 19:05, March 15, 2010 (UTC) :::Finite few? wat. Life Guardian 20:23, March 15, 2010 (UTC) ::::The point I think AthrunFeya is trying to get across is that an MM bomber build wants lots of weak expendable minions to increase its damage output. If you use AotL then you are making stronger minions which won't blow up as often and therefore you are decreasing its damage output. However, I would can see having a stronger army that can blow up for more damage when they fall is better late game. tbh I run Jagged Bones on hero MM bombers and run AotL in Human MM builds.--[[User:Jarad|'Jarad']] 01:23, March 16, 2010 (UTC) :You can use OoU or Animate Flesh Golem on a minion bomber, too. It's just stupid to do so when other skills do the job much better. Just because it's using a skill designed for quick minion creation doesn't make it a bomber. Nothing you've said so far makes any sense at all, honestly. You repeatedly seem to suggest that this is a bomber build, but the WELL tag pointed to an OoU build, which is not a bomber build either. So which is it? Is it inferior because it's a human bomber build (which it's obviously not....if you took some time to actually look at the build, you'd note that it has Blood of the Master for minion upkeep, and keeping minions alive defeats the purpose of bombing), or is it inferior for raising a large maintainable army because OoU deals more damage (but loses to AotL in several non-damage-related areas, such as energy-efficiency, speed of raising minions, level of the minions raised, etc.)? This is a perfectly viable alternative to OoU MMs, and you've yet to give a real reason why this is inferior beyond your opinion and gross misunderstanding of the actual intent of the build. >_> --BuildKitten 05:44, March 16, 2010 (UTC) ::Actually, the original mainbar did suggest it was more of a bomber build but interestingly still had blood of the master. Consequently, I've pulled Death Nova into the optionals, humans can't use it properly anyway. - [[User:Athrun Feya|''Athrun]][[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 13:18, March 16, 2010 (UTC) :::Didn't look like a bomber to me. At all. O_o Bone Fiends (a ranged unit who won't even go near the foes, making them a shitty bomber) + BotM = the most failtastic bomber of all time. Did you perhaps get that impression because of the flavor text above the mainbar (where it suggests this build is for quick armies, bombing, and support)? Because the build itself doesn't suggest bomber to me in the slightest. --BuildKitten 16:01, March 16, 2010 (UTC) ::::Death Nova kind of implies a bomber (cant think of any other situation where its useful). But the rest of the build, like you said, disagreed hence why I took Death Nova out the main bar. - [[User:Athrun Feya|''Athrun]][[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya'']] - 16:05, March 16, 2010 (UTC) Variant Suggestions Conviction and Mystic Regeneration at 8 earth prayers for defense and to cover sac costs. Personally I always prefer just letting the backline heal my sacs but often PuGs demand you take a self heal. Also, in situations where you can maintain an 11 minion army without needing AoTL then all you're really getting out of it is the +1 death magic (and it can kill your fiends) so it makes sense to at least have the option of using other elites then. Animate flesh golem is the obvious choice, a level 29 golem can soak up and dish out a lot of damage especially against foes at a lower level than it, but maybe spoil victor or other elites could be good optionals too. Of course you'd have to change the name of the build though, maybe "Army Minion Master" since at least the people I talk to refer to general non-bomber MMs as army MMs. Necromas 17:42, April 17, 2010 (UTC) Second Variation AotL Minion Master as I see it should be used. The variations I have are not mentioned as options in the page, therefore I feel that I should mention this. I have used this variant for months for vanquishes, underworld runs and hard mode missions and it functions perfectly in any environment and have never needed to make even minor alterations. Build Below. Theorlando 21:12, June 9, 2010 (UTC) Attributes and Skills prof=N/Mo DeathMagic=12+1+3 HealingPrayers=12 SoulReaping=3of the Lichof the MasterNecrosisMasochismFleshBreezeAreaLife/build *Healing Breeze may be replaced if so desired, as it functions only as a self heal. *Restore Life may be replaced by any rez one sees fit. However it has good synergy with healing prayers. Equipment * Max armor *Minion Master insignias on Legs, head and arms *Radiant Insignia on Chest *Survivor Insignia on legs *Superior death rune *Highest Vigor rune you can afford *2 runes of vitae *Rune of Attunement * Weapons *Wayward Wand (death) (Unique end game factions) *Deldrimor Death Focus (end game proph) (or suitable replacements) Usage This build has 2 aspects of it: MM and damage. :MM: :Use Masochism then Aura of the Lich to summon up to 11 Lv21 bone horrors. Use Blood of the master periodically when out of combat to keep minions at full health, Heal area is very useful out of combat because it heals the caster and therefore removes the necromancers health sacrifice from the monks concern while out of combat, while also healing the minions substantially. While in combat Blood of the Master should be spammed as necessary to keep up minion health. Whenever Lich recharges and there are dead foes it should be used to replace minions that accrued -10 degen from their long life. Healing Breeze (or variant) is useful for being independent of monk healing. :Damage: :Opening with rotting flesh (while enemies are not aggroed) will usually cause the entire enemy party to suffer from disease for about 30seconds. This allows Necrosis to be spammed relentlessly on any enemy in the area as needed and targets can easily change. Keeping minions upkept should take precedence over damage in most cases. Due to constant minion deaths and the low cost of spells, Necrosis can be cast for eternity without going under 30 energy. Rotting Flesh should not be used frivolously due to it's cost however. Counters *Unstoppable once army gets rolling, as long as Blood of the Master is used smartly *Energy drains like shutdown mesmers. *Dervishes and Smiters can kill minions easily if not cautious *Long Durations without corpses (allied corpses work fine) Notes *When Lich/Masochism runs out the 11th minion will stay in your army even though your attributes shouldn't be able to hold that many. *If a wipe is imminent this build often survives until it is the last one or two (due to insignias increasing AR). Using Lich will pull a horde of minions that can distract enemies till you can rez party, escape or prevent enemies regenerating while you return from a shrine (unbound minions still fight). *Do not use Rotting Flesh on human melee fighters. Often they will immediately run at your party, only spreading disease to the party while his midline is disease free. *Energy management is never a problem due to soul reaping and minion resurrection and deaths *Minions replaced with Aura of the Lich activate Soul Reaping, negating the spell cost. mainbar MoP + battle standard + barbs/nothing, imho. melee buffs all the way --ςοάχ? -- 01:15, June 10, 2010 (UTC)